Reflections on Fedicon and FOSS: Guilt by association?
Introduction
Before I start. I want to be extremely clear. I love the Fediverse. I love being on the Fediverse. I'm extremely grateful to developers like Eugen. I have a Peertube account on spectra.video kindly provided for free by Sean Tilley. Librecast posts it's videos on that channel and has a mastodon account on chaos.social. As do I on onepict@chaos.social.
The Fediverse is a wonderful alternative to the walled gardens of the 2010s. It offers interoperability.
I've participated on social hub. My project is a funded by NGI Zero which funds many projects for Activity Pub integration. So I do want to be in solidarity with these projects. I don't want to piss on them or burn bridges within my community. There's a huge “however” coming.
I'm writing this rather long post. It's going to upset people. Despite my posts I don't like upsetting people. But I will call out the vibes if I feel we've not really learned anything. For all we protocol wash this stuff, nothing's changed.
I'm seeing history repeat itself. I'm seeing attitudes repeating themselves.
Especially with the recent quote about FOSS being dead. Which is true. I agree with that. Our communities and their spirits are being picked over by AI that steals our creations and creates zombies without our living fire in it.
Telling yourself that you're a FOSS project and doing good merely because you picked a licence isn't enough. Open Source has always been the acceptable face to the corporate world because it couldn't really cope with the idea of Free Software.
In our community, we tell ourselves Fairy Tales.
That's not fair. As adults, we tell ourselves fairy tales all the time. We tell ourselves comforting lies about the way the world works.
In FOSS we tell ourselves the comforting lie that what we do is ethical. Merely by writing code and releasing it under an Open Source Licence. – Esther Payne (me) [20]
However we also have a huge divide even within the Free Software world. Individual liberty over communal freedoms. Which is how we end up with the divide within the Fediverse community. Some folks really do have a problem with Opt in Consent and want to connect the world, publishing everything and sharing everything automatically.
Back in the olden times
Nearly two decades ago I was at a mini meetup where various Open Source using companies in Scotland met up to try to figure out a workable replacement for Microsoft Exchange. There was the talk about how we were nearly there and “yeah, we'd save the world from these evil proprietary Corporate Software Companies”. We'd save the world from Microsoft!
There was one dissenting voice. From a guy who believed in what we aimed to do. But was also working with Exchange day to day. Who saw just how integrated Exchange was in the Corporate world. But the underlying unspoken aim that none of us spoke out loud, was that we wanted to take over to win.
As we ended up in the startup community in Edinburgh, much of the same sentiment was closer to the surface. We had bloop, a twitter clone where the initial organiser of Tech Meetup Edinburgh was desperately trying to get us to sign up. Even creating a cross-poster to link up Facebook and Twitter. As a Managing Director friend of mine pointed out: “What's the point of it. We have Twitter and Facebook.”
We also tended to use those networks for separate things in my spaces. Twitter for the Activism, Facebook for family and friends. We knew better than to mix the groups. We were trying to prevent context collapse before other folks defined it for us. So we'd attend for the free pizza and mix together. Then some of us would go for a pint nearby and Kebab Mahal for the awesome curry and think about what folks pitched. To our little group of folks in small business who were used to Infrastructure, it seemed like a bunch of marketing wank. Solutions looking for a problem.
So looking in from an ocean and landmass away, It was interesting seeing the spirit of the startup culture showing up. It's great that developers are meeting up together. I wish there'd been some Health Policy and masking. But I know that's asking too much from many folks in FOSS.[25], [26]
We tell ourselves the fairy tale that we care, yet our values are lacking in that regard. [23], [24]
Fedicon and the two sides of Fedi
Other posts and articles have covered the two sides of the Fediverse ad-nauseam. We know the two sides, the vulnerable folks who'd like opt-in consent to be built into the design of our Fediverse applications from the beginning. Those who want to connect up everything and share information between protocols and federate everything. Even when the political considerations or consequences have never been thought about.
Ben Pate's presentation was quoted over the Fediverse by the attendees. What was quoted by some of the well known members of our Fediverse seemed to starkly illustrate the divide in attitude. Sometimes our community seems to get it. The idea of consent, and presenting ourselves as different from places like Twitter and Facebook. I mean we have IFTAS and some block lists. That's enough isn't it? We care!
No politics here! Only Connections! Yay!
“The connections between the nodes are more important than the nodes themselves.”
—Ben Pate at Fedicon August 02 2025 [1]
A quote like this is lovely. Yes, this is the freedom of Association part. It's Article 20 of the UNCHR. Freedom of Association in Safety. Then I remember bridges to Bluesky and Nostr [6]The “Apolitical” Networking Protocol. An instance using that software bridged and posted Dentangles posts about Alonso[a] on its network which is indexed by Google. Dentangle selected the No Index tag. So we had an issue with NodeBB and also discovered a Nostr instance synced those posts to it's instance. Which also doesn't seem to respect the NoIndex tag.
Nostr has a reputation for this. Nostr also works with Alex Gleason who does good work so why not? Yes, that Alex Gleason who used to work for Truth Social. Activity Pub has some issues and was never designed for many folks needs. So consent isn't really built in. It's the nature of the Internet. It was never really designed for Privacy and Security and our developer community is a reflection of that. After all, many developers started in FOSS. We're conditioned to work together and not discuss politics.
It's why when reporting on the block evasion of authorised fetch the article on we distribute was neutral about it. After all we're all working together for a common good to connect everyone up in a decentralised network. Why on earth might some folks not want to associate with us? [7].[8]
“AGREE TO DISAGREE” IS RESERVED FOR THINGS LIKE “I DON'T LIKE MARMITE.” NOT HOMOPHOBIA, TRANSPHOBIA. NOT HUMAN RIGHTS. NOT BASIC COMMON DECENCY. WE DO NOT HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION HERE. WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE IN MORALITY. DISAGREEING WITH THE VALIDITY OF SOMEONE'S IDENTITY AND THE RIGHTS AND SERVICES THEY DESERVE OR DON'T DESERVE BECAUSE OF IT IS DISCRIMINATION, NOT DISAGREEMENT. – David A. Evans
But why do we associate with everyone?
It depends on your goals. The other half of the Fediverse is a product of our startup culture on both sides of the pond. The line goes up. We must connect everybody!
Granted these are quotes from a presentation where everyone is bigging each other up. It's an important part of the community to support each other and show solidarity for each other. To grow the community.
It's also why at times, we distribute does show more solidarity for the Dev Community in the Wider decentralised community than us folks who complain about the lack of consent in the culture. I'm sure the Activity Pub and Bridging Folks feel very singled out. But here's the thing.
We expect better of you.
Yet even with a pisstake in a presentation it comes off as well as the “Developers, Developers, Developers” quote by Steve Balmer[9] It's great enthusiasm but it sets off alarm bells about corporate Fedi. You talk a good community group game. But it's no movement. You can't manufacture a movement when a good portion of your community don't feel safe in it. You can't grow a movement when you seem to have a lack of empathy for it.
You seem to think of us as haters. But if we were haters, we would just leave. Some folks have had to because of your lack of care. Much like when we've lost folks to the Proprietary world. We failed them utterly.
In the grand scheme of things, the Fediverse is still very, very small. We’re at the early peak of the “Innovators” section of the Technology Adoption Life Cycle.
Threads and Bluesky absolutely crush us in terms of user numbers, and they themselves are only tiny slices compared to even bigger platforms.
#FediCon [2]
Hot takes those posts may be. But it really gives off an air of huffing each others farts.
Like I get it. I've been there and you're all having a great time, being inspired in person. Eating together, sharing tips, doing hackathons. It helps to keep you going. Its why I loved going to conferences.
Being in a space with other Devs with no one nagging you for changes and not being mean to you is great. I'm sure there's always encouraging conversations to reassure developers that they didn't do anything wrong, or it was a mistake and you don't deserve the pile on. To be fair, no one does. Including the various minorities on the fediverse, who when they do point out what's wrong with our culture on here get way worse. No one deserves Death threats, doxing and stalking. You're getting a tiny bit of the experience for a lot of vulnerable folks on here.
I'm sympathetic really. Don't mistake that for me being a nice person. I know that some folks will be a bit upset and see this as another scold. [8]
It is a scold, but there are also behaviours to be encouraged and some of the devs in our spaces are changing. Are listening when things happen and do try to mitigate the damage. The damage is still done. So it still needs to be called out, because there's a pipeline to the Fediverse that thinks about the technical aspect first and the wider community a long time afterwards. [10]
Which Developers like Darius are working on, to create a testing framework with generated data, so we don't have incidents like the nodeBB one over the weekend.
I try my best to be kind. But I won't hide behind niceness. Niceness is a falsity. Being nice to each other and framing it as kindness means you can ignore the Fascist in the dev teams. After all if you never talk about your politics in the open, you can claim you never knew they were harmful.
Context Collapse
“There are 8 billion humans, and we should aim to serve every single one….We can’t exactly hold up the Fediverse as a viable alternative when we leave so many people behind.”
— Ben Pate at Fedicon August 02 2025
This was the quote that made some of us on the other side of the fedi divide nervous. The side that prefers context in our communications.
I have to admit I get nervous when I see Devs on here being obsessed with scale and reaching billions of people.
Yes we do need to share information.
But we can't scale context or the complexities of language. We can't really understand the scale of billions.
Sharing information and translating is an art and takes some empathy.
Scale does matter for the transport, but the message?
You need to consider context, that takes people. It should also take explicit, enthusiastic consent.
“The 100 people in this room are the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1%... If knowledge of the Fediverse were money, we would all be hundred-billionnaires.” [2] Ben Pate at Fedicon August 02 2025
This is hype cycle. This is the us and them. This gives off a mixture of mid-life crisis devs having missed out on the 2010 gold rush. Along with the kids who are so excited to be with these guys. They are finally here! Whohoo! We're so much nicer than Facebook or Twitter. Despite the fact that you'll still work with threads and Blusky which Jack Dorsey funded. Nothing's changed, we're just a little more open. We still are reducing people to the numbers.
We are still objectifying folks and logging the numbers to show our success. The line goes up.
It's the attitude that doesn't mind a bridge between separate networks of folks who perhaps shouldn't be mixed. It's the attitude that encourages context collapse.
It's also the same attitude of the earlier crop of walled garden social networks that encouraged us all to upload our address books so that our contacts had shadow profiles on those networks without their consent.
Facebook has always had a rather shonky idea of consent. It seems to be the standard Silicon Valley growth mindset to suggest users find their friends. By asking you to upload your address book. If you did upload your contacts, it's made you culpable as well in that very bad idea of consent.
Yes you.
If you uploaded your address book, there will be a shadow profile of someone who never wanted to be on Facebook. Their information is on Facebook's servers without their consent.
Chances are that person may well have told you this as well.
It's well past the time since 2013 for you to be listening to them.
Which is why I'm against the bridges. When our followers bridge our content, the current state of affairs with Activity Pub means we have very little control over where our posts get shared.
How to deal with an issue
Julian who developed NodeBB, once he was made aware of the issue with Dentangles profile and posts fixed the profile not respecting the no Index part.
There's still some stuff I don't agree with like treating public and unlisted posts as the same. Which is more of a Mastodon thing and we really could do with consent being considered for version 2 of Activity Pub. Although with the Organisations that are part of the SWF I have a feeling privacy and consent will be at the bottom of the pile for Activity Pub improvements.
Eugen also recognised the issue and pinpointed the cause. [12]
Both developers were calm and polite and listened. Which is more than I can say for the circle the wagons types who see any complaint as an attack. Who also prefer to focus on the classification of the behaviour rather than consider the consequences. Anyone who brings up these sort of issues in the public as a call out will attract the ire of community defenders as much as devs who want to sort out the problem. When controversy happens on the fediverse, there is an overwhelm with discussions that mention the person as the originator. Which can cause that account to consider shutting down and leaving. Because of course we want to defend our projects. Of course the community that has built up around projects wants to defend them.
It's a thing that makes me nervous as Librecast gets bigger, as we build more. I love the fact our community is supportive. We're still building something to be usable. We're at the foundations. I love the faith that the community is putting in us.
If we screw up down the line, we need to be accountable for that. I'd never want to be responsible for a pile on because of a fuck up on our part. So I hope our wider community always takes the time to understand the situation, and waits for our response before reacting. Every member of our community is an ambassador for it.
At times, some parts of the Fediverse in their need to defend it, are not great ambassadors for a community. To be fair neither are a lot of FOSSfolks. We've got decades of form, with little solidarity for vulnerable communities.
But the thing to remember is regardless of how a post on the fediverse ended up being indexed by google. The fact is that user expectations were broken, a users posts was indexed on Google.
We're careless with peoples data. We always have been and I'd like us to do better.
How to consider opt out
Money and power are not the problem. The centralization of that money and power are the problem. – Ben Pate at Fedicon August 02 2025 [4]
This is a great acknowledgement of one of the reasons we are in the online situation we are in. But it's not the whole story. Decentralisation much like multicast is not the panacea for fixing the problems. They are merely the transports for information.
Who we choose to associate with, what are their politics does matter. You can't expect vulnerable folks to associate with others who have a laissez fair attitude to Privacy and politics. Money is merely a way to enforce and gain power.
The problem is who we associate with to enable that power and influence. The problem is not recognising the solidarity we should have with folks who require mutual aid. The folks who do require some privacy but who want to have some visibility because we live in a capitalist world and artists do need to eat sometime this month. As do developers and community folks. [13 – 19 ]
There is another way. If you want to develop in the Fediverse. Consider consent! [21]
Sometimes consent has already been built in via the way the network you need to bridge was built in the first place as Encyclia Found. But Encyclia has also made opt-out very easy. There's a paper you can read and everything. [22] The developers analysed Orcid and the fediverse communities, they asked folks like Jon Pincus (and myself) what we thought. Before Julian Fietkau even asked, there was an automatic opt-out mechanism. I have an Orcid id, and I work in the public. So it's a useful bridge for me. Julian took the time to understand both communities and put the work in to get community buy in.
More of that please.
[a] A small Dog who visits dentangle. Alonso is awesome.
[1] https://social.wedistribute.org/objects/374c4a38-afe7-47ad-bfda-53e56d270b2d
[2] https://cosocial.ca/@evan/114960662017514079
[3] https://social.wedistribute.org/objects/332b437c-18ea-4cc0-bf1c-9beeba406617 archive.today link
[4] https://j12t.social/@j12t/114960633276222308 archive.today link
[5] https://www.onepict.com/consentpartdeux20240215.html
[6] https://wedistribute.org/2024/05/nostr-crash-course/
[7] https://wedistribute.org/2023/12/authorized-fetch-circumvented/
[8] https://dotart.blog/cobbles/the-scolds-bridle
[9] https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-ballmer-viral-sweaty-developers-chant-microsoft-2025-6
[10] https://cathode.church/fedi-scraper-counter.html
[11] https://community.nodebb.org/post/105338
[12] https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/114959141909677032
[13] https://www.onepict.com/20240813-ecosystem.html
[14] https://www.onepict.com/20241114-hats.html
[15] https://www.onepict.com/20240409-sustain.html
[16] https://www.onepict.com/20240409-sustain.html
[17] https://www.onepict.com/20240512-elephant.html
[18] https://www.onepict.com/2022-11-28-resign.html
[19] https://www.onepict.com/20240601-fedieco.html
[20] https://www.onepict.com/20250119-cobbles.html
[21] https://privacy.thenexus.today/consent-for-fediverse-developers/
[22] https://encyclia.pub/optin-optout-analysis
[23] https://librecast.net/fluconf-2025/
[24] https://librecast.net/2025-07-31-matrix-and-linkedin.html
[25] https://beige.party/@PhoenixSerenity/114950635483009795